Comments on: The cake and the cockroach http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/guidebook-seville-travelwriting-reviews-campana.html Banter between travel writers, travel PRs and travel social media people Fri, 03 Sep 2010 09:00:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jeremy Head http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/guidebook-seville-travelwriting-reviews-campana.html/comment-page-1#comment-230 Jeremy Head Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:09:19 +0000 http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/the-cake-and-the-cockroach.html#comment-230 @ Simon @ Kevin I'm sat between you on this. I see Kevin's point - but I think Simon is being very open about the inevitable choices you have to make as a freelance and I appreciate that a great deal. It's something editors should wake up to. We all have to earn a living... It's not about not fact checking. There is no suggestion here of that. It's about going the extra mile. For example.. you could check a place's phone number is correct and that it's still open by: 1) Visiting it personally 2) Calling the phone number and seeing if they answer 3) Checking their website to see if the phone number on it is the same... and just dropping it if you can't find a website 4) Checking some other kind of on-line directory to see if you can find them listed there Clearly there's a very different level of confidence about these different approaches. To be fair I am being paid quite a decent amount by Frommer's - and I am very happy to go on record saying that. And, yes, it has an impact on my readiness to go that extra mile. @ Simon @ Kevin
I'm sat between you on this. I see Kevin's point - but I think Simon is being very open about the inevitable choices you have to make as a freelance and I appreciate that a great deal. It's something editors should wake up to. We all have to earn a living... It's not about not fact checking. There is no suggestion here of that. It's about going the extra mile. For example.. you could check a place's phone number is correct and that it's still open by:
1) Visiting it personally
2) Calling the phone number and seeing if they answer
3) Checking their website to see if the phone number on it is the same... and just dropping it if you can't find a website
4) Checking some other kind of on-line directory to see if you can find them listed there
Clearly there's a very different level of confidence about these different approaches.
To be fair I am being paid quite a decent amount by Frommer's - and I am very happy to go on record saying that. And, yes, it has an impact on my readiness to go that extra mile.

]]> By: Kevin May http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/guidebook-seville-travelwriting-reviews-campana.html/comment-page-1#comment-229 Kevin May Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:56:29 +0000 http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/the-cake-and-the-cockroach.html#comment-229 Hi Simon, Apologies if you think I'm being disingenuous. Perhaps we're getting our disciplines mixed up... In my world of journalism (stretching from notoriously underpaid local newspapers and an in-house police service rag to marginally more lucrative trade magazine, moderating and broadcast), fact-checking takes place as standard. But given the time and resource pressures you face, I can see (reluctantly) why you might consider not doing so. Hi Simon,

Apologies if you think I'm being disingenuous. Perhaps we're getting our disciplines mixed up...

In my world of journalism (stretching from notoriously underpaid local newspapers and an in-house police service rag to marginally more lucrative trade magazine, moderating and broadcast), fact-checking takes place as standard.

But given the time and resource pressures you face, I can see (reluctantly) why you might consider not doing so.

]]> By: Bakeley http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/guidebook-seville-travelwriting-reviews-campana.html/comment-page-1#comment-228 Bakeley Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:04:22 +0000 http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/the-cake-and-the-cockroach.html#comment-228 I write a major guide book, and I recently had an editor who independently searched back in the health department records to find violations for one particular place I had written about. It was a local landmark that merited mention, but he didn't want it in the book, so he took it upon himself to find a reason why. It didn't matter to him that the place had passed four subsequent health inspections over the past two years and was squeaky-clean now -- he wanted me to mention the past violations. It was totally unfair to all the other places that didn't get such a treatment, it gave the false (and possibly libelous) impression that the place was currently an unsafe place to eat, and it was unfair to the establishment, since those issues were long behind it. I bring this up because it's proof that 1) the standard can be so haphazardly applied when deciding what to include in a book and 2) infractions can haunt a place forever. Also, it proves my editor is a conniving dick, but that's more for me to worry about. I write a major guide book, and I recently had an editor who independently searched back in the health department records to find violations for one particular place I had written about. It was a local landmark that merited mention, but he didn't want it in the book, so he took it upon himself to find a reason why. It didn't matter to him that the place had passed four subsequent health inspections over the past two years and was squeaky-clean now -- he wanted me to mention the past violations. It was totally unfair to all the other places that didn't get such a treatment, it gave the false (and possibly libelous) impression that the place was currently an unsafe place to eat, and it was unfair to the establishment, since those issues were long behind it. I bring this up because it's proof that 1) the standard can be so haphazardly applied when deciding what to include in a book and 2) infractions can haunt a place forever. Also, it proves my editor is a conniving dick, but that's more for me to worry about.

]]> By: Thomas Power http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/guidebook-seville-travelwriting-reviews-campana.html/comment-page-1#comment-227 Thomas Power Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:00:26 +0000 http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/the-cake-and-the-cockroach.html#comment-227 Jeremy, this thread rather puts paid to your complaints about travel journalism being so badly paid. If things were as bad as you say then you would have been delighted to find such a rich source of protein in your otherwise carb loaded cake. Jeremy, this thread rather puts paid to your complaints about travel journalism being so badly paid. If things were as bad as you say then you would have been delighted to find such a rich source of protein in your otherwise carb loaded cake.

]]> By: simon heptinstall http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/guidebook-seville-travelwriting-reviews-campana.html/comment-page-1#comment-226 simon heptinstall Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:56:25 +0000 http://www.travelblather.com/2009/10/the-cake-and-the-cockroach.html#comment-226 brilliant thread that would have made a nice little radio prog. but can you estimate J for the benefit of those who aren't miserably paid writers what you are being paid for that one tiny snippet of info in the guide-book revision? presumably it's one of hundreds of entries that all have to be checked so divide your fee by the number of places and tell us how much you have been paid pro rate to check this place out. i bet that's the real tragedy of this thread. and that might go some way to answer the disingenuous kevin may who expects us all to have the same level of fact checking regardless of pay. of course that's totally unrealistic. there's a vast difference between cutting and pasting from the net and personally visiting every place mentioned. in this instant you;ve gone way beyond the normal call of duty. for some of my internet work i get pence, for some of my print work i get thousands of pounds. is that the editors' whimsy or are they expecting different standards? brilliant thread that would have made a nice little radio prog. but can you estimate J for the benefit of those who aren't miserably paid writers what you are being paid for that one tiny snippet of info in the guide-book revision? presumably it's one of hundreds of entries that all have to be checked so divide your fee by the number of places and tell us how much you have been paid pro rate to check this place out.

i bet that's the real tragedy of this thread.

and that might go some way to answer the disingenuous kevin may who expects us all to have the same level of fact checking regardless of pay. of course that's totally unrealistic. there's a vast difference between cutting and pasting from the net and personally visiting every place mentioned. in this instant you;ve gone way beyond the normal call of duty.

for some of my internet work i get pence, for some of my print work i get thousands of pounds. is that the editors' whimsy or are they expecting different standards?

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